[Carl Russell]

Michelle, I also us multi- row systems, and have found it difficult to use a team for cultivation after I make the rows. I use my two row cultivator to make wide raised beds, but after planting they are too wide to accommodate the team on a normal width evener, and the two row is also too narrow.

I have never seen an implement like you describe. I don’t cover as much ground as many, but have found single row cultivators to work great….. But that obviously leaves the weeding and cultivating within the bed to hand methods. It would be interesting to see the picture you are referring to.

There was that rig the Jelmer used to cultivate multiple rows, but was also drawn by a single….. I think. But it seemed to be very adjustable to a variety of applications.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Image and Description in pdf format below…

Carl

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[Carl Russell]

Erika, if Sam can find a way to shorten the neck yoke set up, it might help with the pole and draft angle for the sulky. I like to have the yoke under the horses’ noses, or even shorter if possible with a plug-yoke.

I stopped using the traditional neck yoke years ago. The old timer who sold me my first horse had made up a neck yoke from an old spread-chain, and it can be shortened by rolling it toward the horses, wrapping the chain around. I started doing that, just because I could, and found it to help significantly with the D-ring hitch, and pole height…. Of course it is the same basis for Les’ plug-yoke design.

The D-ring harness has some great features designed into it, but long front side straps and neck yoke can actually defeat the purpose of carrying weight on the saddle. The longer the arms of the suspension triangle, the harder it is to get a functional hitch.

There is conventional thought that there is a standard pole length, but I have found that I end up modifying pole length to fit my hitch…. And that is based on the way I set up my harness…. Not the other way around.

🙂

Carl

[Carl Russell]

My Lazy straps are 1″ light leather straps about 18″ long….. I have used nylon rope. They are adjustable, but not conveniently. They are entirely inconsequential to me. All they do is catch the hold-back when I unhook the yoke. I immediately upon unhooking, hook my hold-back up into the ring at the top of the lazy strap…. no need to let them hang.

I also hook them tight in a two-way, and back them to get the slack for the evener to roll. I am not so sure that there is a lot of tongue weight on a riding plow anyway, the problem is to maintain collar position, and if the straps are too short the pole could be causing the collar to shift during motion.

Carl

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[Carl Russell]

The swivel on the front trace is not for draft action. It merely saves the leather when the harnes is hung up, allowing the thick leather to hang down without twisting against the hamebolt.

The front trace (read D-ring and jack saddle/belly band adjustment) should be ninety degrees to the hames at all times….it is the function of the D-ring that allows the rear trace to change for line of draft.

If the collar fits the horse, and hames fit the collar, then hames fit the horse, and adjusting the D-ring to match and hold the ninety will be all you need to worry about…. As long as the front trace is not too long…

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Yes George from that standpoint I totally get it. Beech logs load hard and are hard to chain securely even when they are straight. I have had as much as 500 feet behind my cart several times with as many as 7-8 tree-length logs chained together in different configurations. Of course in perfect conditions and downhill…

I got thinking a bit more about the cart to the log thing, and it may have something to do with the Barden cart after all. Because I can always get into a safe position easily, I find I feel better using it, even on extremely steep slopes and rough ground…. deep snow is another matter, just because the wheels trig up.

Anyway, I do think that working on the ground next to a log cart, especially in tight-going is much more dangerous and difficult than riding or ground driving loose rigging…. and having to climb up and balance on a high seat would be even more cumbersome.

Anyway, have fun, Carl

[Carl Russell]

He may need to measure the leather, or strapping, but the measurement should be taken from hamebolt to D-ring….. How the ends are dressed is up to the harness maker… Or customer…. But the length of the front trace for a medium draft 16.2hh should be in the 21″ range. Of course shoulder slope, and collar style will play into that on each horse, but he will do much better with that estimate than with then 24″ that seems to be the industry standard.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

You know George, I have a favorite coffee cup and a large table spoon that I measure sugar with, but sometimes I dump sugar in, or maple syrup, and stir with a fork, or (god forbid) I use a different cup…… 😉

I am not completely convinced it has to do with the type of the cart, as I have a high-wheeled version as well. I think that if I know I am going to be ground skidding because of terrain, or conditions, then I am likely to just take the sled….. something about being on the ground already that leads me to want to roll bunched logs onto a sled.

Additionally, there are times when I will bunch for the sled using a cart.

For me I think it comes down to the way I see the work, and woods. I will fall trees differently when I’m using the cart. I have long chains, rings, and tongs that I use to reach long distances, and of course the lay of the tree must have taken those into consideration.

Just for an example of the personal perspective on this, at 2012 BWW I was chopping blow-down hardwoods for 3-4 teams in a woodland bowl with moderate to steep slopes. Near the end of the day I had finally worked my way up to some very difficult trees….. but of course having done this kind of work before, I had “worked” my way there with an eye toward functionality, as everyone was using an arch. One of them just wouldn’t do it, one other nearly had a tragedy, and Chad Vogel and Jim Brown just drove up, backed around hitched, tightened, and drew them away.

I have marked a lot of trees for all kinds of loggers, and we each have our own way of seeing how to get them out…… so whatever feels the best, usually is.

Right now I am working in a pine plantation, cutting 26-32 foot cabin logs, in 2-3 feet of snow. I pushed open a main trail with the crawler, but most of the trees are not close to the trail, and they are specifically selected for the project. I will find the best fall toward the trail, use a long chain if I have to, pull the whole tree if we can (20 feet or so) cut off a log, back and rehitch, those kinds of things….. I suppose that’s what you refer to as “futzing around”…. which in my mind keep me in the groove that makes it work for me.

Thanks for sharing, it is great to see other ways to do things.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Great video George.

Over the years I have tried different configurations of hooks and swivels. I have found the Bitch-link on a swivel to be fail-proof. Easy to hold onto, doesn’t bend, and it is very easy to hitch on chokers. The challenge of keeping hooks and swivels on eveners on carts is the hammer-strap often doesn’t offer enough room to accommodate everything. Like George, I think the time to connect or disconnect a clevis is insignificant in the scheme of things.

However, I find I rarely disconnect the horses from the cart. If the snow is too deep to use the cart, I generally use the bobsled, or scoot, and on those devices I have room to leave the even all set up.

This has been a challenging winter for sure. I have a tendency of more work than I can get done, some of which is forestry consulting, so when logging conditions are difficult to manage, I get started on other projects, then when weather is suitable, sometimes I am knee-deep in another project. Then when I complete that project we get another 20″ of snow…. thank god I have an old crawler to bust open trails.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

The most important thing that I think you need to have is grit. Ingenuity is also a strong aspect of success with draft animals. I have seen quite a few beginners starting out, and it all comes down to commitment. If you believe that you cannot go forward without draft animals in your life, you will find the time, and opportunities. I don’t mean this in a harsh manner, but it will not come to you, you will have to overcome the obstacles.

It seems these days that it is politically correct to suggest the long slow learning curve of exposure and experience. I once stood where you are. I approached an old horse logger about my interest in learning to log with horses, and he said “if I wanted to go logging with horses, I’d buy a horse and go logging”….. Which by the way is what I did….

This may not be the best approach for you, but it doesn’t mean you should sneak around the bush either. This is an immersion process. Dive in. Don’t overthink it….

It is a lot like the bandaid… Long and slow is more painful. You will need to make significant changes, particularly regarding time. Holding off will only make the transition even more difficult.

That’s the way I see it, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Awesome. Have a good time, and welcome back.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

George, I don’t want to skip over your post, I think your answere was great, but it thought you all would find this link interesting…..hold on to your hats… [video]http://youtu.be/jEh5-zZ9jUg[/video]

[Carl Russell]

Management of our personal time, and the health of animals, land, and crops are the underpinning of the art of farming. As our culture has shifted away from the land the emphasis has shifted to the product and away from process. In so doing the principles of capitalism (not a snipe, just the title) and economy of scale have driven the practice of farming toward investment in equipment and infrastructure (capitalized investments) to increase production.

The problem with this scenario is that while there are (have been) always upfront investments, when managing biological communities (livestock and plants included) those investments must be within natural parameters related to the sustainability of health, soil productivity, weather, etc. As the economic investments increase those variables become mathematical complications that must be overcome for the formula to be effective.

For some reason, probably related to a few powerful people wanting to get richer, we have not understood that one solution is to unload the debt, and adhere to the basic ecological principles that inherently sustain those biological systems. That was (WAS) supposed to be the foundation of Organic practices…. and for many it still is…. but we keep looking for capitalistic solutions to the economic complications even within Organic.

There are a few of us… many on here… who can see the genius of downsizing to low investment, low input, low impact biological systems even for motive power. I don’t care ( I actually really do care, that’s why I have invested nearly 30 years in this way of life) how robotic we get, eventually the same economic truth will come crashing down on us….. we have to work within the parameters of the Earth’s ecological/biological systems if we intend to survive.

Now that is not to say that if you can find a way to afford technology, you shouldn’t use it. After all we are only victims of time and space, and truthfully none of us can live as islands. I worked for 25 years without a piece of equipment, but recently paid cash for an old crawler that I now use for road building, rolling compost piles, pushing logs, and some other minor things. We also have a 4Whlr that compliments the animal power for quick light errands and work…..

So I am not insisting on purism myself, which leads to complicate the discussion even more. It is very hard for most people to see a continuum. Most people see either/or, black/white. We are conditioned to see extremes, so in some ways the 4Whlr on a horse farm blows holes in the argument. However it still comes down to the economics. I have, and continue to, adhere to strict principles of protecting the sustainability and productivity of the biological systems I depend on, and measure all capital investments against those.

If the debt is going to force me to change my intensive biological investment strategies, then it won’t happen. (Which is why we farm at a scale that still allows us to earn off-farm income to pay for off-farm expenses, rather than looking to our land and animals to mine resources from our ecosystem to pay for unrelated expenses)

In our culture we have reveled in the cosmopolitan educational opportunities that modern culture has provided. One side effect is that we have produced entire industries of scientists, engineers, economists, and other specialists that have absolutely no connection to the land…. no understanding of Earth-systems….. who use their amazing knowledge to develop strategies and modernizations that just perpetuate the disconnection…. it is a virus.

There is immense genius in farming by horse and hand…… blood, sweat, tears, and horse manure.

Hang on, I think we are in for a wild ride…. 😯

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I just read Donn’s excellent coverage of standing horses, and thought it would be useful to put this situation in context.

This mare stands very well…. In general. She has passed all of my general ground rules. Stands to have her feet worked on. Stands loose at the barn door to be unharnessed. Stands at whoa… Out the barn door, in the woods when I’m hitching the logs, or anytime before I have hitched to, or tested a log. On the landing she will take a step when asked to advance the cart and whoa on voice alone.

Her problem is that as soon as she has weight behind her she gets fidgety, anxious, and ambitious. This in my mind is not a standing issue per se. This has more to do with working, line pressure, and teamster expectations. Her previous conditioning was on soft and inarticulate lines. No distinction between contact and release. She was hooked and then allowed to drag the weight under her own objective. She is a horse that is not used to stopping when pulling. She does not know how to manage her energy, and she does not quite understand that she can trust me to do that for her.

What I have been working on is building that trust. She has been learning that I never expect her to go until she is ready to stop. She is learning that she has the power to easily move whatever I hook her to. Over time she will learn the difference between contact and release. She will understand that she only needs to move weigh when there is contact on the lines, under my control. It will take time, but this is actually only accomplish able through work, as that is where the conditioning occurred, and there are so many aspects that can only be recreated and tested during working situations.

Like I wrote before she has been, we have been, doing very well…. But in my mind there has been a lingering question about where her point of no return is. Having been informed about the crashes from previous owners I have been waiting for the other shoe to drop. I have had so much success with her, I was questioning the reality that was forming. This lingering need to start on her own when hitched needed to be understood better for me to move beyond it.

That is why I started this with ALMOST got beat by my own game. I was skirting the edge of safety, but I purposefully wanted to see this in action. As it turned out… It was a foolish choice on my part because of the failure of the log hitch….. But on the whole I did get what I wanted.

I now have a clear picture of the horse I am working with….. And the recovery of that day has kept me in control….. And I am grateful for the convergence of opportunity that allowed that to happen for me.

Carl

😆

[Carl Russell]

Excellent Jim. Great pics.

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