[Carl Russell]

I’m definitely planning on attending. It’s the first time in years that I haven’t had a conflict being involved in a local event, the Randolph Area Family Farm Fest.

Hope to see you there, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thank you Scott for starting this discussion, and thank you Tim, Gregg, Jason, and Jim for all the work you have done getting the word out to people. We definitely need to find ways to help more people feel that they are welcome and able to help out, and show them that just because there are a few people working close to the center it doesn’t mean that their contributions are somehow less important. Making contact with a broad community through the mechanism of a newsletter is a very important contribution.

We can also make an appeal to people to find the best ways for them to feel good about participating, helping to bring more people into the active center.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I completely agree with the hard copy. I am a reluctant convert to the internet myself. There is some great opportunities here, and often times it feels like we’re making a lot of contacts, but the virtual reality can be seriously deceiving.

It will take a lot of work, but if we use the internet as a way to share mailing lists, broadcast information, and generally to facilitate a wide-ranging connection (international??), I think the WWW can be put to good use.

We have been kicking around the creation of the Draft Animal Power Network to facilitate the connection of people, and other regional, or broader “associations”. This is a much bigger project than I can, or possibly want to, accomplish by my self. I know that as much as I’m attracted to the idea of publishing a newsletter, right now, that is more than I can take on.

So basically as limiting as the internet is as a medium to reach all the “important” people, I do like the fact that a few of us, a long way away from each other, could/can cooperate on such an undertaking.

I have been trying to accumulate contact info on NE animal-power timber harvesters for several years, and have made contact with some members of other associations, as I know many of you have too, so we have a critical mass available to us, we could try to coagulate some of that.

I would be glad to create another category on this forum where these types of discussions can occur.

Also as a thought I have the capacity of creating “secret” forums on here where only a few people can “see” what is posted, so that documents, and detailed oriented(boring?) discussions can happen in a bubble.

I am not suggesting to hide important work, but we have been using such a forum for NEAPFD to discuss planning, and other specific info that would be distracting to the general readership.

I am totally open to letting DAP be used in such a constructive way. I also, as stated before, have no motivation for personal gain, so although I would like to be materially involved, I don’t have to be a main player to feel like making it happen here.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Glad you could make it Gregg!

I agree with the basic premise that at the very least we benefit from the development of a contact network. Sharing info, and learning that we each exist. That is really what motivates me. I have no “cause” to promote. I get bored personally with that stuff. My personal goal is strong family, community, and a land-use enterprise that can sustain itself for at least a few generations. What stimulates me about the network, is the feeling of cohesiveness, and the sharing of a community of interest. I will gladly contribute to facilitating the association of animal-powered timber harvesters, but I’m not the guy to deliver the rallying call, or to develop an advocacy campaign.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I used to get the international Horse Logger’s Newsletter. I really appreciated all the work NAHMLA did to promote horse and mule logging. In fact it is their influence that caused me to consider the efforts I have undertaken such as DAP. Organizations are difficult because there are usually only a few people who really take action, and when they get too busy or otherwise distracted the group sits idle. Go for it Scott.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Nice going Loren! Boy your description brings back memories. Things definitely get more stream-lined as you get more experience.

Good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

We use a blend of natural essential oils, that we spray on our cows, but I never use anything on my working cattle or horses. I just can’t keep the bottle with me, and I always forget on days when I really need it, and on other days I get it all over my hands, and then in my mouth. And flies and cattle have been doing this dance for bazillion years, so I don’t think it is really such a big deal.

I never have had any really bad situation either, where the cattle seemed so distracted or anything. They stepped in a hornets nest once, now that woke them up a bit, but even then they were under control and just moved with a little more intention until we got out of the range of influence.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I too am a non-cooperator. However, I do not believe in our judicial system enough to go to jail to try to prove that it can save us. I will not fight with them, and I won’t conform, NAIS will have no affect on my life.

It’s important that people understand that we are not alone when we stand up to them, because the fear is all they have. There is no way they will be able to enforce this lunacy, unless we all scatter and get picked off one by one.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Making them pull a hill without stopping is a sure way to make a balky team. If they can’t start it they won’t be able to pull it, and if they can pull it then they will be able to start it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thanks for that Scott. Nice to know a little about you. What a journey.
Welcome, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Donn pretty much nailed it. Carl

[Carl Russell]

lancek;9852 wrote:

…And Carl, what I was hinting at is maybe setting up chapters in each state with the people that live in each state that vist this web site and helping them set up demos and co op with each other to learn more about how everybody is doing things out there! It seems that the people in vermount and new hapsire seem to network with each other all the time on this site and Im sure folks in other parts of the country would enjoy this to

LanceK
I understand what you are getting at. I will take it into consideration how I may be able to do it here.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Biological Woodsman;9832 wrote:

…I am not sure how much instruction will go on at SDAD as much as demonstration.

The workshop idea/approach is great and will definitely attract folks interested in the focus of the workshop. Will there be a separate charge for the workshops Carl?

Can you tell we are still planning?…..

At NEAPFD we are not on a mission to convince anyone to try using draft animals, so outright demonstration has very little purpose. Our goal is to expand the opportunities for people who have an interest, or even experience, to connect with resources that will advance their endeavors. With that in mind we try to make sure that every demonstration is as much about the details of making the work work, as about the sight of animals working.

We are constantly getting negative feedback about how some spectators didn’t have places to sit, or had difficulty understanding what was going on, but truthfully we never expected someone to come to our woodland demo that wasn’t physically and mentally able to actually perform the work themselves. I am not trying exclude these people, but this is not the emphasis of NEAPFD. There are other fairs and expos and the like for people to get their feel-good animal experiences.

But, we have learned that as event organizers we need to understand that we will attract people who have needs that we never intended to have to deal with, and we are trying to do whatever we can to either inform them up-front, or have something to offer them somewhere at the event so that every body can get what they came for.

We do not charge extra for workshops, just one gate fee, although this year we will have half-day and full day rates so that we can offer more intensive 3-hour workshops Sat AM giving people who want that exposure the chance to come early.

We also try to make out exhibitors, resource people, and swap meet be important enough that folks will have interest in what is offered.

As far as field demos, plowing, hitching, mowing, or skidding logs all involve so many details extraneous to the animals that we feel that the demonstrations have to be set up in such a way to give attendees the chance to interact with the teamsters, including sessions where presentors will take some time to explain why they are doing, what they are doing, the way they are doing it.

One thing that I have learned about being an event organizer is to clearly define the goal that you are aiming for, and adhere to that. It can be very difficult to translate to more than a thousand people the exact details of what that goal means to you. You will always get feed-back that your event didn’t meet the interests of some, and that is often because that person didn’t understand the event, but rather went looking for what they thought the event should have been about. By being clear about your own goals then you will know that you did as good a job as you could to meet those goals, and you will know which feed-back to take seriously, and which to appreciate for what it is.

Gate fee is a very difficult part. I take seriously people’s concerns about ticket cost, but I also know what the expenses can be, and when a hurricane blows up the eastern seaboard three days before your outdoor event, no amount of good intentions is going to pay everybody you promised money to. This is why Lisa and I have spent so much time during the remainder of the year drumming up sponsorship. Without sponsors, and VOLINTEERS, there is no way that anybody can make the gate fee affordable.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Just to pitch in here. SDAD sounds great. I think it is important to see the difference between demonstrations like HPD where the organizers don’t particularly care whether or not the spectators are urbanites, or serious learners.

We at NEAPFD have found that although we won’t turn away the money of sightseers, we have purposefully tried to target people with serious interest, which immediately reduces the crowd. In this way we have structured our workshops and demonstrations to be more personally interactive, on the one hand requiring people to take more initiative in finding out what they want to learn, but on the other hand, reducing the need for loud speakers etc.

There is always someone who can’t hear, or missed the last point, so we have decided to make sure there are several facilitators both in the woods and in the fields to keep an eye on the spectators to make sure everyone is getting the exposure they want.

Sound, for all those spectators who can’t hear, is REALLY expensive, and unless there are numerous speakers mounted high in the air, it is often ineffective, so from the standpoint of organizers unless there is substantial sponsorship to support it, gate fees are too unpredictable to make it a worthwhile expenditure.

My solution, have on-going working demos (3-5 hrs) so people can cycle through, create information-rich presentations that will “speak” to the serious student, over the head of spectators, get sponsorship, and set the gate fee high enough that gawkers won’t waste the money.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Hey Loren,
Over twenty five years of slaughtering pigs, I have found that a .22 cal is entirely sufficient. I use a rifle instead of a hand gun, as I have found that I can place the barrel nearly on the forehead with the long gun, but with the pistol they tend to flinch as I reach my hand toward them.

I shoot at a point just off center from an “X” made from ear to opposite eye.

I also have found that trying to cut the jugular with a cut from ear to ear is trying to cut through a lot of flesh, and the vessels are much smaller there behind the jaw. By “sticking” the knife in just above the point of the rib cage the vessels are all together, easy to get to, and at their largest, making for rapid bleeding. I put the knife in from one side, downward under the rib cage, cutting down through the vessels to the backbone, then because I use a double edged knife, I also try to cut back upward to get all of them. Blood should gush out. You may want to keep the knife in there until you get the blood flow, rather than having to get back on the pig to make a better cut after it starts to throw.

As far as holding the pig for sticking, I approach it from the front, as it is laying on its side, I face it from the backbone, put a knee on the shoulder, and reach down to the throat to make the cut.

It often takes about 30 seconds after the shot, before the animal starts to throw, and pigs are pretty violent, so you may want to find someone to help first so that you will have some idea, unless you already have.

I swear by a Storey Publication called Butchering Livestock and Game. It has great descriptions and illustrations. NOFA-VT carries it for sale.

I have been giving slaughter workshops and helping people for several years, and I’ld be glad to answer any other questions, or give guidance.

I also believe strongly in separating, or confining the animal in a situation where they cannot travel far IF things go wrong. I also withhold feed and water the last 24 hours. I realize that that is disturbing to some, but they can carry a lot of offal in their intestines, and it can make for quite a mess.

Good luck, Carl

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