[Carl Russell]

Matt, we have several rolls, so we can build a new paddock next to the old one. If you make your old an new gates near each other, you can run a string from one to the other to direct the cows into the next gate. I find that once they are grazing I can often take down a section and string a new polywire to replace it, if I need to.

We also make large sections then use the front-fence back-fence leap-frog like OldKat described.

We also use the orange plastic extension wire reels that you can get at the hardware store to keep our string on, then it can be rolled up and reeled out very easy. Also try making your sections smaller, and move them more often, then your string can be broken down into shorter lengths so you have several fences that you can set up at the same time.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome, glad to have you here, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Sometimes in thick timber I will just tip a tree into another on purpose, and hook on and drag it down, rather than struggle trying to get it to fall. It helps to make the bottom cut flush, so there is no hinge cutting into the ground when the butt come off the stump.

I have found that the arch-type cart works really well, because with the hitch high, the horses can get a lift on the butt, which tends to want to plow into the ground.

I also hitch the chain with the choker low to give more lift, and to keep the plowing to a minimum.

I have also used a team loose with an evener, by placing a block, or section of log cross-ways in front of the butt. By running the choker up over the block and to the evener, you can get a rolling lift on the butt.

It also helps sometimes to place a felling wedge on the ground where the butt will land on it as it comes off the stump to act as a ski.

And if all else fails, do like Scott says and cut blocks off the bottom. Sometimes you can reach a good 8-12’er. Or being the forester on the job, sometimes I just cut the other tree, if I can’t get it down.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Joel;10787 wrote:

Wow, no one has tried magnesium wedges?

I had a couple back in the ’70’s when we first using saws with centrifugal clutches. I remember them working pretty well. One lasted me well until 1985-6. It seems that when you cut them they stand up a little better.

I just started buying plastic when they started being available.

I rarely have a wedge spit out. I drive them tight before I cut the trigger wood, and I always use two wedges when I have to pound hard, which may make the difference. I also use double taper, and 12″ wedges.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Yes Rod I do just that.The stick is there every time the horse slows down, and he will learn to keep up his pace to stay off the stick.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I like to use a stick in a case like this. I cut a marshmallow stick that is long enough that I can easily reach the butt while still holding the lines. I will just tip the stick so that it touches just above the tail head. I don’t tap, poke, or slap, but just touch them there. Sometimes it requires a bit more pressure, but it is a pretty sensitive place, and best to get a small-scale response first.

At the same time as the pressure, speak the horses name, or the command that you prefer for increasing forward motion.

I prefer this method to slapping with the reins, as I can maintain line pressure, and as soon as the horse slows down a stride I can reaffirm my direction easily.

When you speak to the horse, or slap her with the reins she responds positively, but she is also learning that she can then slow down. You will have better results if you prevent her from doing that, by touching her tail head as soon as she shows she is thinking about slowing down.

When she assumes the desired pace for an extended period, possibly 30 seconds, without your touching her, stop and give her reward for her response. Repeat, and allow her to extend her response.

Keep the stick handy, to reinforce the expectation, not by threatening her with it, but by gently touching her with it. Make sure to use the verbal command with it. You don’t need to raise your voice, just speak, firmly and directly to the horse, in a consistent tone.

Think about it not as getting her to walk faster, but getting her to keep walking faster. Your input should be to prevent her from changing away from the desired behavior, rather than trying to convince her to perform the desired behavior. Then rewarding her for maintaining the faster walk.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I obviously don’t know as much about this horse, nor the injured driver as others, but my comment was merely to point out that no one, in my mind, should be placing more responsibility on the horse than on the teamster.

I just think that as a teamster, owner, or trainer the responsibility rests on them to make sure that the horse is not put in a situation where its best interests are compromised.

Knowing what everybody seems to have known about this horse, it seems that this situation should not have happened, especially considering the experience of the driver. If the horse was not ready for this, then putting the responsibility for the accident on him, is inappropriate, in my mind.

I think that it is ok for Jean to wipe her hands of it. I support her choice, whatever the decision. I just believe that there are a lot of people who need to read that with the allure of driving horses comes serious responsibility.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Scott G;10722 wrote:

….. I would have to respectfully disagree with Carl, at least for most of the horses I’ve worked with. If a short whip, quirt, or switch has been used with that animal before, they know what it is. Regardless if it is tucked through my belt loop and into my back pocket where they can see it slightly over my shoulder, or I cut an aspen or willow switch if things aren’t going well. They know that I have it and I receive a whole new level of attention, even without that switch/quirt/whip touching them. …

I just have a different interpretation. I have seen the same response from an animal when I have a whip, or stick. I attribute it more to the animal reading the resolve, and/or confidence that is projected by me when I have gotten to the point where I feel that I need to get more attention from the animal. I am willing to bet ( because I have been practicing it) that if the same resolve is projected without the whip, the response will be just as satisfactory. The difference is that we often need to have props that lead us to believe, and give us confidence, that we are now more capable of getting the result that we desire.

I’m not saying that having a whip doesn’t work, just a different way of seeing it. I try to see it the way the horse really sees it. The point is that eventually the whip, why ever it is effective, should be removed from the situation. To do this effectively, the teamster must remain an attractive leader to the horse. If the horse is truly focusing on the whip, then the whip will be perpetually necessary, and we all know that is not the case. Somewhere in there the teamster and the horse come to an understanding, and truly effective communication is never a one-way activity. The teamster learns what that horse needs to see them as an effective leader, and learns how to project it, even if it is subconscious.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

It occurs to me, reading all your posts, that we should put together a discussion on directional felling and harvesting with horses. I know a lot of mechanical loggers who only use directional techniques infrequently, yet I have always championed the need and efficiency, especially for low impact, and animal powered forestry.

This is one of the issues that I think animal powered loggers should promote. It is a limitation of logging with animals that requires us all to become skilled choppers. These skills not only facilitate the use of animals, but they support the careful approach to the forestland that can set us apart from the mechanical community.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Scott pretty much says it about the levers. I found them cumbersome, and ineffective.

As far as wedges go. I always carry, and use two on big and hard trees. Trying to lift a heavy crown with one wedge will definitely put too much impact on any plastic wedge. Putting in a second wedge and hitting one then the other, I can lift the biggest tree even in the coldest weather.

I have been using for years the very expensive orange “unbreakable” wedges that used to be made by Sandvik, and now by another name. They cost around $35 each. They will break, but I can get nearly a year out of one, especially if I don’t cut it up too much, and use it in conjunction with another one.

I also use an 8 pound sledge with the handle cut off. It allows for more force, and has a broader hitting surface than the back of an axe. Of course then I also have to carry an axe to cut myself out of jams.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I think it’s about time the TMO’s got cold feet. We don’t need big business, or investment bankers making financial decisions about our forests. Unfortunately as they sell off their holdings there will undoubtedly be substantial development, but in our area we have seen vast acres on large landholdings being completely mismanaged in an obvious attempt to placate investors. Because the action is on such large properties it has significant exposure, and projects the worst examples of forest management.

I have been waiting (and working) for 25 years for this chink in their armor. I am very hopeful for the future. I see a wholesale shift from large scale, financial, and governmental structures to small scale independent and community scale operations. On that smaller scale is where there are many people who recognize the true values of the forested ecosystem, and they/we are waking up to the fact that the only/best way to protect those values, at the same time utilizing them, and investing in them, is to manage our forests as part of our common wealth, not as corporate commercial assets.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

If you choose surgical castration then November would be fine. I wouldn’t worry too much about finding the perfect age. I’d be more concerned about the flies. You can also have the vet crush the vessels too, but they may be too old, as they need to be held. With surgery they get knocked out, and are much easier to handle. Flies can create a really nasty problem.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Karl Louis;10725 wrote:

Looking back through the the archives at the other site it seems it was once a busy place. Quite a bit of information. The guy seems to just want another venue. If some of what he says is true in his view, I’d want another option too.

I posted, or I should say I tried posting at RH, but none of my posts were accepted. Too controversial I guess. I never should have mentioned having a “partner”, set off all the homophobic alarm bells. So even though I’m certain I come from a different place than nohandle/Bret, I’m also familiar with what he’s talking about at RH at least. Fair is fair and I hope they make a go of it. Different strokes for different folks.

The only people (3) to be banned from this site were ones who could not see it in their heart to stop ridiculing, maligning, or being rude to others.

I will personally put all my weight behind the defense of anyone who has constructive and honest contributions, even if their personal, political, religious, or social choices offend others, or me for that matter.

DAP members have gone a long way to showing how we can have disagreements and still converse on a civil level.

I agree that we need alternative sites. I have no need for loyalty here. I do not live my life in competition. I believe that we all play important roles, even folks like the ones I have had to ban. I have given them all several chances, but ultimately had to pull the trigger.

I hope to see more posts from you Karl, and others who are obviously lurking in the inky shadows.

Thanks, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thanks Joe, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Larry, I realized after I wrote all that, that I was making broad statements, assertions into areas that may not be my place to comment.

But I’ll be honest with you, you clearly described to me a situation where the horses were definitely showing you that they are not attracted to your energy, ie, not coming to you except for food, and not following you easily on a lead rope.

My comments were only given to encourage you to read those signs, and try to respond differently than you have been. I also realize that you are thinking, learning, and growing, and that you are not stuck, I was just compelled to respond.

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