[Carl Russell]

I’m still kickin’. I think we have to have some patience as this stuff is something that we all are working on in our different ways everyday.

I for one have a lot of these type of organizational balls in the air, but this does kind of point out why I was more interested in this “Organization” becoming primarily a network, spending a lot of time initially gathering contacts and engaging in broad and inclusive discussions to pull people together to see where we may be going, and not trying to muscle an initiative out of thin air.

I will try to put more effort into this in the next week, Carl

[Carl Russell]

That’s what I was referring to. These are clip ends for the hame bolts to go through. They are not so much designed to allow the traces to move during work, but to allow the harness to hang without bending the leather of the front trace where it is bolted to the hames. They will however allow the angle of the trace to move, but that really is not desirable.

Carl

p.s. Get a D-ring…. it will solve all probs:D

[Carl Russell]

We received donations from Kevin, and Rick to bring the total to $750. Thanks everybody who has donated so far.

Today Green Mountain Draft Horse Association renewed their sponsorship for one more year, bringing our total fund to $1350. That is totally awesome! Everybody give a nod of thanks.

Hey, and if you have any interest in draft horses and live in or near Vermont, consider joining the club. Click on the banner at the top of the page, and visit the GMDHA website for membership information.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I have watched this several times, and I just keep coming back to Jean’s original question, “What(TF) were they thinking?”

Truly…. What were they thinking?

Everything looks so methodical, and intentional. The girls never seem to have any indication of intimidation, or hesitation. The horse actually doesn’t look that scared. It moves purposefully, and seems to be more interested in fighting than fleeing.

There is no doubt that the setting is ridiculous, and the equipment is inadequate, and there was plenty of indication that things were not going as they should, but it boggles my mind why they undertook this in this way. Was it purely because they were so ignorant that they had no idea how wrong it was, or were they trying to show something that is not represented by the way the clip is presented?

And as Patrick points out, it is really interesting that the horse just turns and looks at the wreckage behind him, as if saying, “There!!”

I actually wonder if someone who had better sense could actually make some headway with that animal.

I think it is telling, in the first several frames when the horse raises its head and gives the wide eye to the camera. It’s almost like a fighter getting ready for a fight, like they have all done this several times before.

:confused::confused::confused:
Carl

[Carl Russell]

Unless he is referring to the clip-ends by the hames. They do make ends that swivel allowing the trace to raise and lower behind the horse without changing the angle of the collar. Doesn’t mean the line of draft doesn’t change. Better ask for a picture.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Ahh Geez, what a tragedy. I can’t even imagine the state of mind he was in. That is a lot of work. For his sake I hope it makes the statement he wanted to get across.

:(:confused::mad:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Good discussion.

I actually did make a new forum to focus on discussion like this. I may move some other threads here also.

Knowing the pure pulling power can definitely have merit in making initial considerations, but animals are not machines, and there has to be some understanding about how they can become accustom to certain types of work, based not only on size and conditioning, but on the way they are directed to accomplish the task, the way they are harnessed or yoked, and other elements that only a teamster can bring to the equation.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome Ed. Sounds like you have a good thing going. You will definitely get some good feed-back and advice from folks on this site.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Well done. How heavy are those bales? I like the looks of your new un-roller.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;14755 wrote:

I agree, Carl. That’s definitely a key component to the process. But whether you acknowledge it or not, learning how communication works between you and your horses, does indeed, make you more horse like. Those who have successful partnerships with equines show many of the following qualities or abilities…

use more body language and fewer words.
use energy more efficiently (uses less, with better timing or feel)
maintains a calm, centered presence
becomes more perceptive to changes in their environment
are less prone to emotional outbursts

I have to go to work now, but those are a few examples. We’re human and not horses, obviously. But when in rome….

I can see that these are tendencies that are more commonly seen in horses than modern civilized humans…. but absolutely disagree that these are traits that are inherently horse-like, and not human. I have been attracted to horses precisely because they have been the ones in my life who demonstrated these behaviors more freely, but I have seen this with cattle, dogs, and certain humans.

These are more animalistic tendencies, that as humans we tend to be culturalized away from, and I can see why people believe that we need to become more horse-like to demonstrate these behaviors, but that has not been my experience. When I became aware of how this was different than how I was taught to behave, or different from how I saw other humans acting, it felt like I was coming home. Like someone had shown me an old photo album, and all of a sudden I remembered how it used to be… or how it was supposed to be.

I do not use horse behavior to communicate with horses. I employ my own understanding of my innate demonstration of emotion and intention to use my innate inclinations and body language without the learned distractions of modern human behavior. In fact I now can see this on other people. I can see the tension in their neck, the way they hold their heads, the ripple in the skin on the top of their head, the posture of their shoulders, the freedom or lack thereof in their stride, etc.. All of these things are present at all times, with all animals, including humans. Body language is inherent for all animals, and even though the body parts are shaped differently, many of the demonstrations are the same.

There is no doubt that working with horses has helped me to see this, but they didn’t do it so that I could understand them, they did it so that I could understand myself.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;14685 wrote:

Its interesting and, quite honestly, validating to hear you bring out the obvious benefits to the human who endeavors to be more horselike….

I am not taking you to task, just clarifying that for me it is not becoming more horse-like. It in fact is a true growth of the human character. I feel that through working with horses I have learned how they react to my behavior which has helped me to become a more honest, sober, and present human.

I definitely watch the way horses act and communicate, but not so that I can act like them in order that they will understand me. I believe that they already understand me regardless of how I act. The point for me is whether I am cognizant of how I am presenting myself, and whether I have a sensitivity to how that affects the relationship that I am striving for with my horses.

I respect my horses, but I see a very distinct line between human and horse. Although I have a sense of the way that horses communicate, I am more concerned with knowing how they react to the ways that I communicate. I do not believe that they are confused by my behavior if I am unclear about my intentions or lack possession of my emotions, they are just turned off.

I love being around horses because of the enterprise of working with them physically… of being physical.. with beings that can relate to that… which I find many humans to be unfamiliar with….. although I believe that it is innate to us as well.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Tim Harrigan;14723 wrote:

I promise you the horse learned more than anyone else that day.

None of it good:eek:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Who learned anything? Maybe to driver who ends up face down between the shafts?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

grey;14693 wrote:

If I approach my horse feeling pity for putting her in a position I know she will not enjoy (paste deworming day, for instance), she will feel that softness in me and translate it as a lack of firmness and resolve. She will rebel and act up, hoping that I will relent and not follow through with the unpleasantness. I have to steel my resolve and go into the task with a firmness of spirit that says, “And now we will do this until it is done.”

This particular mare of mine will take advantage of any softness and make you regret ever having felt it. One needn’t be mean with her, just firm. I think that the softness actually disgusts this horse. She is on the top rung of the social ladder and has no respect for a soft spirit who tries to tell her what to do.

Well said.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

Rain for us… Sunday… Maybe an inch, then arctic blast again. Guess I gotta put on the sharp caulked shoes!! Hopefully the ground will stay frozen….Lot’s of good logging weather left.

Carl

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