[Carl Russell]

Rod, it is a hard thing to really put into practice, but if you’re in a hurry with cattle, you’re about two weeks late. In other words, even if you THINK you don’t have much time, you need to take the same amount as you would if you had all the time in the world. It isn’t easy making time to work these animals, and we all have the same issues, but just be patient, and get into a rhythm. Before you know it, they will be working just fine. You have to remember they are a lot younger and stronger than you, and they will need some routine conditioning before they will settle down.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

My traces are set up as you mention Geoff. I have very old hand made chrome steel hooks on d-rings at the end of the trace, and my heel chains are attached to my eveners. I’m not sure of the advantage, just always had them like that.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

That’s Dan Macon. He is the organizer of the Sierra Nevada Small Farm Progress Days, and mule-powered farmer at Flying Mule Farm in Auburn, CA.

I agree that the harness looks a bit out of whack, but the animal and teamster seem to be at ease and doing as they intended.

I can’t comment further on the harness as I am completely unfamiliar with that style.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Good Job Does’ Leap. Congratulations.:)

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Glad to have you on board. The “banned” thing should be all cleared up. It was probably when your were awaiting moderation. We’ve had so many spammers posting while in the registration limbo that I had to make the members awaiting moderation “banned” so they can’t spam us….. Sorry for the inconvenience. Let me know if it persists.

Welcome, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Making grumpy northerners too. It looks like northern Minnesota up here. Like wind swept tundra.

Nice sled Donn. What is the chain up from the front? Can that be unhitched to undo the arch for unloading? Wider shoes on the runner may help for flotation in deeper snow. Also welding a 3/8 rod down the middle of the shoe may also help with tracking, and wear. Another trick is to weld on a false shoe that will take the wear, and can be replaced without having to replace the whole runner.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Apparently the artist is planning a premiere for early March, driving it through Times Square and Central Park with draft horses. Any horse people close to NYC with medallions lurking around this site?? I’m in contact with him, and will be glad to pass along any interest.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I’m gonna buy an old F-100, cut out the motor, hitch the farm team to it and go to town hauling a load of manure.:eek::D

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Hey Erika, Slick’s Garage is where they are doing the work. It’s in Palmetto, FLA. On the 20th, I think they said they will be completing the task. If you get a spare minute, and you’re not too far away, you should go give them an earful about getting some good work-horses in front of that thing.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

mink;15339 wrote:

carl , i know this isnt horse logging related but do you have any idea what those tractor loads of chips get in vermont or northern new york? mink

Nope. I have never had a chip job, and truthfully I don’t run with that crowd to be in on conversations about that. I do know that it isn’t a lot.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Countymouse;15343 wrote:

Thanks alot everyone, and especially for the photos of the bridle chains. They look pretty simple to make and I am kicking myself for not thinking of that already…

Because these weren’t devised in isolation. There were many many men working hard for years and trading ideas back and forth before this design was perfected. And I mean perfected.

I understand the point Simon was making about the breaking pole. I also have an old Travois sled with dog on a cam that is attached to the pole. The pole slides in a pocket, so when they are pulling the load the dogs are up, but when the sled runs up, the pole slides back into the pocket and the cam forces the dogs into the snow.

These systems also work, but they do have limitations because the dogs only grab an inch of snow or ice. The Bridle chains provide profound drag, and they can be employed on one or both runners, so that turns can be facilitated as well. They may be a little too much work for just putzing around with light working loads, but if the sled will be loaded heavily they are a must in my mind.

When you guys are making up your own pay attention to the size of these links. They are 3/4-1″ chain. Quite large. This is important. While lighter chain will create drag, it can also get clogged easily with snow and basically become useless. It may be amazing, but dragging on ice and snow, and the occasional frozen dirt patch will create a lot of wear, so the large hardened links are also valuable for that. I have seen chains made of 3/8″ loops with 10 or so large links spliced in just under the runners.

Also make sure that they are long enough to reach back to just in front of the weight balance of the load. If they are too far back then the runner will bare weight in front to them, or if they are too short there will be more weight on the runner behind them, and in both cases they will not be that effective. Look back at that pic with the log on the bobsled and you can see that the chain is just in front of the bunk.

You will also want to make sure that the latch you use can in fact be undone easily…. just in case. Position it so that you can reach it easily. The ring and finger is very effective because the ring can be tapped off quickly with an axe or peavey.

I have found many of these at auctions, and in old barns all over New England. I would be more inclined to find an old set than to try to make one…. but that’s probably because I have found so many of them. If you want to discuss this more so that you don’t have to buy more than you need I can try to get measurements etc.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Here are some close-ups of a couple of bridle chains.

[Carl Russell]

Joel;15303 wrote:

If one is thinning simply to promote an increase in mean annual increment (mai) then you are already behind.

Read any silviculture text… one thins to increase the value of the resudual stand.

Any large increase in mai could change the strength characteristics of the wood.

It is always nice to have a plan. If one can enter a stand early enough good forest practices can occur.

Everyone’s definition of good forest practices is different.

This is exactly right Joel. I’m sure that you have seen it too, but as a rule around our region foresters don’t really adhere to these general principles. Most forestry that I see in the NE is timber sale administration disguised as silviculture. Most timber sales are merely crafted by foresters to harvest marketable material, balanced against a bit of low grade to appear to be “improvement”, but generally are more like hiring an agent to find the best markets for the available timber.

There is a general understanding that that is what you have to do to practice forestry. Try to steer the boat in a more favorable direction as the current of industrial forestry takes you down a river you didn’t choose.

I don’t think there is any misconception that this is real forestry. But the public sees college educated foresters practicing this way, and they swallow it hook, line and sinker.

What we are talking about is the perfect opportunity for animal powered timber harvesters to grab the high ground. To show that we know, and practice, the basic principles of forestry. Show how animal power is ideally suited to this kind of work. Let the mechanized harvesters continue to over-cut, and leave stand in basically the same condition, in terms of quality, or worse than when they got there.

We can be honest about the true cost of improvement harvests. The reason mechanical harvesters have to take the hide with the tail is because modern foresters tend to be afraid to tell a LO that it will cost them to remove the low grade to improve the lot, so they throw in a bunch of the good stuff to make up for having to cut the crap. The problem is that there is an image that mechanical harvesting costs less than horse logging, precisely because of the type of forestry being used to support it.

It will be hard to change many minds, but since we log with animals we don’t have to find that many. And if we can work out some mechanism so that as a group we can demonstrate that we are all producing material from enterprises that adhere to the basic principles of good forestry and low impact harvesting then we can begin to capitalize on that value we are bringing to the process.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

First of all the shafts should be able to pivot, especially with the long runners of this sled. The solution is to have adjustable chains that limit the angle that they can pivot. This is a pic of the front of my scoot. This is for a pole, but you can cut off the pole and bolt on shafts. There is a spread chain attached below the front bunk so that the draft is actually directed to the runner on the outside of the turn. It is the large chains under the evener that have a large ring that the pole runs through that prevent the sled from passing the horses.

[ATTACH]912.jpg” />

Next, if you actually find Bridle Chains, they are made so that it is very easy to engage and disengage them. They are made to either attach to the roll as in this pic, or sometimes they are on a staple that rests on top of the runner. There is a ring on the long end, and a finger and ring (similar to tire chain clasp) on the staple end. Lay the chain in front of the runner and attach to the ring by folding the finger back and sliding the little ring over the finger. Move the sled forward, and it goes up onto the chain, which acts as a brake. When not needed, slide the little ring off the finger and move the sled ahead. The chain will slide out from under the runner and will drag free beside the runner. It helps to stop where it is still easy to start the sled, as the chain will still act as a brake until it has been dragged free. This pic shows the unused chain dragging beside the other runner.
[ATTACH]913.jpg” />

Hope that helps. If you click a second time on the thumb nail you should get a zoom view to give a little better perspective.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

dominiquer60;15239 wrote:

Carl, That last one sounded like it came straight out of the book “Listen While I Think…., I am a Vermonter,” pure Yankeese.

Well I’ll admit that as a youth I loved to listen to “Burt’n I” records of Down East Humor. That was one of my favorites.

The amazing thing is that the story is true. I had waited patiently for years, knowing that when you live in the country you are often stopped and asked for directions, I just had this one locked and loaded, and when the poor guy laid it out there, I pulled the trigger.

The funniest part was that I think they didn’t really understand. They kind of looked at me like they didn’t want to believe anything I would tell them after that… even though I cracked a wide grin…

Carl

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