[Carl Russell]

Matthew;18164 wrote:

….. A organic farmer who uses a tractor on the farm is still producing the same product. …..

I don’t want to open a can of worms, but I just couldn’t let that go by.

I would not agree with this sentiment. I think it is a personal choice to decide what equipment to use, but products from animal powered operations have value added that have to do with all of the environmental impacts that are tempered by the choice not to use petroleum, not to mention all of the direct physical and intellectual investments that make these products artisanal in nature.

It is not cheating to use a tractor, but don’t try to pretend that it is the same thing as using animal power. Markets may not value the difference, but the two approaches are very different.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Using draft power involves so much personal creative expression, that any operation involving draft animals will be by default significantly personal, so how can there be “cheating” in a situation like that?

There are many reasons why using machinery makes sense. I split wood by hand, including selling or custom production of sometimes as many as 20 cords/year, for years, but now that I have a wood splitter, I don’t feel like I’m cheating. We live in a mechanized age, and machines do provide us with proficiencies that give us advantages.

For me, it really comes down to expenses. The beauty of using animals is the low overhead, low purchase price, low input costs, increased value from personal investment (ie. training/working), and the opportunity to add value to work by personal ingenuity.

When we bring machinery into an operation we bring in large up-front costs, possible finance charges, increased fixed and variable production costs, purchased outside engineering and design costs, and constant depreciation.

Another detail is that in terms of sustainable land-use enterprises, machinery consumes fuel that requires the acceptance of possible environmental degradation. Fuel that is destroyed in the process of using the machine. The internal combustion motor is a destructive device. This does not diminish the value of the work that can be performed, but seen in comparison to animal power, the results of the two systems are quite different.

So my personal choice has been to bring as few machines into my operation as possible. This definitely requires a vision of scale that is different than many examples that most people are trying to work within. In order to keep costs low, I need to keep my operation extremely diversified, spreading cost over as many cost centers as possible. Making up for lack of logging production by providing food, building materials, and heating for my family from the farm, etc..

So I have to do without some of the things that machines could do for me. Avoiding systems that require the use of machinery, pasturing to reduce amount of manure that must be handled, controlling the scale of production, and finding other forms of income, are some of the choices I make instead of buying machinery.

I don’t see using machines as “cheating”, but for me they offer distraction from my own personal objective of developing a livelihood that uses or destroys as few resources as possible, and supports the development of a land-based enterprise that can sustain several families into the future with needs being met by what is present on the property.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I will work on material this week. Mindlessly busy here right now.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;18118 wrote:

…….Whether the work was indeed too hard or his perception was that it was too hard….its hard to tell…but it makes no difference, as either way it is a bad experience for him. I just need to find a way to set him up next time to succeed…….

This sounds similar to your experience with the big log this winter. I know you have a keen sensibility to your horses capability, but I have noticed many times over the years that as people learn the work they often have a hard time visualizing what the animal “should” be able to do.

Not being there, and knowing full well that both you and Mark can make a good determination, I still feel compelled to encourage you to push yourself and Reno past the smooth maneuver stage, and into the significant controlled effort stage of performing work.

I agree there were probably too many factors in this situation for you to comfortably control, but the one about Reno’s effort should be one that you don’t have to work on in the middle of a project like this. Yes it takes time, and I know you are working on it, but it will be a key to future success.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

highway;18094 wrote:

….. Many times we like to keep our struggles to ourselves and are embarrassed to talk about it.

I for one feel your pain. As a new teamster, it is very frustrating to set out for a task and not have it go well. Been there done that.

…..

I think this pretty much sums it up for me. This is why I encourage folks to keep trying. I have bumps and bruises, and curses scarred into my psyche from very very challenging days like Jenn has described.

After so many years, I don’t know anymore than most people, but I do know how to accept the situation when it doesn’t go as I planned. I think it is one of the constants of working with animals.

It really isn’t a set-back, but truly an experience that can be used to advance our understanding of how we work with our animals. This is how humility retains its freshness in our attempts to lead these beasts into situations they have no interest in, and maybe uncomfortable with.

I am not a plow man either. I have plowed with my horses about 1/2 acre/year for over 20 years. Not a lot of practice in the big scheme. I tried a wooden beam side-hill plow years ago,and found similar result as Jenn. I got an old sulky plow, and used it for years with horses and steers. Last summer I bought an goo Oliver walking plow, and after 3 hours of serious workout trying to align the factors, I finally found an incredibly peaceful way to turn soil.

My point is that setting up a situation, while it may have some bearing on the outcome, really does not guarantee that things will go as planned. There is a great deal of effort sometimes, not matter what the expectations.

Oh yeah, and knowing when and how to quit…. that is a great skill to learn….I am still working on that….. but being open to the success that does exist, so that there can be a gracious and constructive retreat, only to redouble the effort later.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;18067 wrote:

… But do I adhere to the timeframe and plow with the tractor (this time)…..

Tell me how plowing with a tractor is going to help you learn how to plow with your horse!

…and What time frame? This is New England. Even if it takes you two weeks, ala Erik’s suggestion, so what, there is still time.

Part of successful farming with draft animals is being realistic, and not letting unrealistic expectation drive us to justifying compromise. I truly know where you are coming from, but I do have ground that has over twenty years of petroleum free cultivation. The reward is too great to compromise….in my mind.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Education. Lot’s of education. Hands-on. The best kind. Sometimes it hurts, but sometimes that’s the only way we learn. Something has to help clear the vision.

There are so many factors. The soil, the condition of the plow, Reno’s attitude. Some times you just have to work through it. I think you need to seriously consider the condition of the plow. It may very well be the source of your predicament. By the way, how much have you been working Reno since he got on grass full time?? My horses are pretty piped up these days, and they haven’t even gotten on grass yet.

I’d say your biggest problem was your expectations. I know it’s hard to do, but I learned long ago, when I want to accomplish something, not to go at it with an expectation that it will only require a short time. At least if you only have a short time then only work for that long.

Plowing is not an easy thing to master. As you have found out it is much more than just driving the horse, or steering the plow. I’d say that is the positive. You added to your knowledge base, and it will help you in the future. Give it another try.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Frickin’ Awesome Dude!!!

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Mark, it sounds right, but maybe the GD is not wide enough. It isn’t supposed to be able to roll over. That is one of the main functions of the devise.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thanks Rick, It is satisfying to see pictures with these details. Truthfully, I thank you. I know the “market” would rather see heads, but I truly appreciate your gesture. And they definitely show your skill and eye as well.

Grey. Thanks for beating the drum.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Mitch, I’m envious. I was in the UK for a short visit about 30 years ago, and it’s nice to see your photos.

Thanks, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Here is a picture of a 2 horse mower that was being rebuilt by Rod. I think yu can see that there is more distance between wheels.

[IMG]http://www.draftanimalpower.com/photoplog/images/2392/1_mcd2.JPG[/IMG]

I would say you have a 1 horse mower. You would have to make an off-set pole as well as realigning your hitch. It might work, but you’ll know more after you give it a try.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thanks Jim, I’ll take those into consideration. I hadn’t really thought about tooth decay in horses. I have never experienced that, have you?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

[IMG]http://www.draftanimalpower.com/photoplog/images/2392/1_mcd1.JPG[/IMG]

You can post them in the photo gallery, and link to them as you did, or simply copy and paste them from the gallery into your post.

Good looking machine. Thanks for posting.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

From almost winter-like two days ago, to almost summer-like today. What a beautiful day in the woods, cutting red pine for sawlogs. May be cutting a load of utility pole soon.

Carl

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