[becorson]

That is sad about your ash trees dying.
Your state department of agriculture / plant pathologist might be able to help you decide the cause and then you could go from there in deciding what to do.

You probably have thought of this already but beware of moving diseased wood that hasn’t been kiln dried out of your area, at least until you know what disease is affecting the trees.
. depending on what’s causing the disease, it could be spread via the wood. that’s how the emerald ash borer is spreading for example. a bundle of firewood is enough :o(

[becorson]

i think a chilly horse will clamp its tail close in to the body and will generally stand with its butt to the wind. a horse that looks relaxed and unconcerned is probably not chilly.
Jean is right that snow will pile up, or icicles will form, on a well insulated horse.
I also agree with Erika dominquer who said that forage is important when it comes to generating heat. concentrates might help an exhausted, wet and shivering horse (one that needs digestible energy quick) but forage will produce heat in the long run and prevent shivering.
i just read an scientific paper about that. (and you KNOW science has all the answers!!! Ha! )

[becorson]

I agree Fabian, more important than padding is the surface area and WHERE the pressure of draft work is applied.
for any that might have an interest, here are some thoughts about harness theory from a perspective of animal anatomy :

In cattle, the neck is about the strongest part of the body. by strong i mean “able to move a lot of weight” and also “able to take a lot of pressure and abuse”. In horses, the back and shoulders are very strong and “tightly made”.
In contrast, the bovine back is flexible …. and there is also a lot more loose connective tissue under the bovine shoulder compared to the horse.
( as a pathologist, it’s my part to take horses and cattle apart every day, so i feel pretty confident in saying that! )

anyway, the differences in the neck , chest and shoulder between the two species goes a long way, i think, to explaining at least some of the differences in harnessing technique.

another way to explain differences in harnessing techniques, of course is socio-economics. Historically, oxen were used in relatively undeveloped areas, right? and they are still used in the poorest areas of the world, because they CAN be harnessed with very simple technologies, the kind that you can make yourself even if you only have a machete in your tool box.

if you are rich enough and educated enough, you make a carefully designed harness from wood, leaher and metal, or a beautifully fashioned neck yoke or a head yoke……and the animals would certainly work better
but the majority of oxen working today are not owned by rich people.
those skinny harsh looking yokes on oxen in Nigeria and in India, and Nicaragua are not used because they are efficient or comfortable for the animal, but because nothing else is available.
that’s the work that Tiller’s International and other groups are trying to do; to improve animal draft power technology world wide. i have been thinking about this topci a good deal, since the International Conference on Oxen at williamsburg Va, a month or so ago. it was an inspiring convention and made me want to go volunteer somewhere! but philosophizing on this forum will have to do for now. (sorry!)

[becorson]

thanks Jennifer, i always enjoy your posts, too. this is such a great forum.

Barb Corson

[becorson]

for what it’s worth, I think Howie is right. either a collar or a yoke can work for oxen as long as the equipment is fitted right. conversely either a collar or a yoke can make an ox sore if it’s NOT fitted right.
the bovine shoulder, chest and neck are obviously different from a horse’s , and to me, the difference means that you shouldn’t use a neck yoke (or a head yoke for that matter! ) on a horse. also you probably shouldn’t use a breast “collar” on an ox. but there seems to be no lack of evidence that properly designed neck collars, neck yokes, and head yokes can all be used on oxen with good results.
where i live in southern pa it is easier to find harness makers rather than wood workers but historically, oxen have been most popular in areas where the situation is reversed and i think that accounts for the traditional preference for the wooden yoke.

[becorson]

this is a good thread.
i have a horse-trainer friend in norway. he’s getting up there in years and has trained literally thousands of driving horses, including carriage horses and work horses. he always starts them in an open bridle because he does a lot of long lining and he wants the horse to be able to see him and respond to his position (like round-penning). also he wants to see the horse’s eye because it helps him gauge the horse’s mood etc.

In Norway work horses are usually driving in open bridles. Carriage horses more often have blinkers. i think it has to do with how “reactive” the horse is. my experience as a veterinarian has led me to think that some horses have a reflex to startle and run from something that appears suddenly in their line of sight. if free, they would run a little distance and then turn and look at the startling object. if they are harnessed to something, it follows them when they run and that sends them into panic mode. so horses like that are better off with blinders. i had a saddlebred that was like this. i would not have driven him without blinkers.
other horses are less “reactive” and if something suddenly appears in their line of sight they are better at assessing its danger without running. horses like this seem to be better without blinders , maybe because they like to be able to assess what is making the noise etc behind them.
i have a mare that fits into the second category. she is around 18 now and i’ve had her since 1994, she was about 4. she was amish trained and i used her with blinkers for years but she was always trying to turn around to see what was going on. it wasn’t dangerous but was annoying for me and she seemed stressed too (head up, ears twitching, etc) . for the last 3-4 years i have been driving her without blinkers and she seems much happier. i like the fact that she and i can make eye contact easily when i’m driving her. she is a very savvy “survivor” type horse and has more than once made a good decision when moving logs about when to stand still and when to move a little. she backs herself right up to the log i want to move as if she can read my mind.

I have a DVD of horses working in the woods in norway, without blinkers , and the horses look as cooperative and wise as guide dogs, which also make their own decisions at times .
the horses in the DVD are Doele horses from eastern norway. it is a great DVD and i wish i could share it with you all!
one more thing: my horse trainer friend says if you drive a pair or other multiple hitch of carriage horses, there is another good reason to use blinkers and that is because you don’t want the horses to see the whip. if they can’t see it, you can use the whip selectively as an aide on one horse without it influencing the other horse.
thanks

[becorson]

It is a very disappointing choice. perhaps the silver lining is that it will keep us from getting ort hopes up that governemnt (federal or any other level) can do anything other than make the world more bureaucratic.
what hope there is still lies in individuals and local communites, just like you guys have said.
for what it’s worth, I am not much worried about my personal survival or even the survival of the human race, but I AM worried about the survival of the things that make us human. the worst case scenario, in my opinion, is that the human race survives as some kind of bio-techno-bureaucratic hybrid, but we lose all connection with the land, plants and our fellow animals . seems like we’re headed that way fast. today i met a young woman who said she feels “dirty” when she has a few dried leaves in her hair from walking through the woods on a windy winter day….

maybe if we all made it a goal not to “circle the wagons” and focus on hoarding our resources and skills but rather to be giving and outgoing and try to inspire other people . I see this forum as a great resource for that kind of thing, (as long as the electricity and internet are functioning).
i’m rambling. this is what a glass of (locally made) wine at the end of a long day does to me….
best wishes to all.

[becorson]

great picture. you both look like you’re enjoying life! keep up the good work.

[becorson]

i don’t guess anyone knows of a way to use horses to power a chipper or shredder?

[becorson]

someone, i’m not sure who, said: “Grief is the price we pay for love” . seems true to me. a great price, but worth it.

[becorson]

i have done garden plowing with a single horse and an 8 inch plow. my set-up has been to let the horse walk on the land. i wanted to work a single horse because what little equipment i have is all single horse stuff.
recently some friends loaned me a set of team lines and helped me experiment driving my two horses as a team. i was surprised at how well they took to it. (not that it went perfectly but it wasn’t the rodeo i thought it would be, either) it seemed that one of the two mares clearly preferred to be in the furrow and the other preferred to be on the land (we tried both ways).
anyway now i am ready to get my own set of pair lines and an evener!

[becorson]

The single oxen i have trained were milking shorthorns.
The book “In Praise of Oxen” shows a picture or two of a single ox in a head yoke, if i remember right.

[becorson]

i couldn’t open the link.. it said i needed an I.d., could be trouble with the web site and if i try again later i might get through.
i heard about this sad problem from a friend in Europe, (France) so i’m sure it’s valid.

[becorson]

thanks for the replies, that’s very helpful!

[becorson]

Drew Conroy says Brown Swiss are generally docile and easy to train compared to, for example, Devons and Chianinas. He says Holsteins are intermediate on the docile/pokey to temperamental/ difficult spectrum.

Brown Swiss and Holsteins do grow pretty fast but “big” isn’t the same as “ready to work” . Consider horses: a 2 year old shire is bigger but probably LESS ready to do a day’s work than a 2 year old Morgan ? just “thinking out loud” here.

as far as being rowdy when they are young, most animals are, aren’t they? whether horse, ox, dog or human.

I agree with Tevis that an animal with a slower reaction time can be easier to train, especially for beginners. so much of training depends on timing. If the animal is really quick, it’s harder to get the timing right.

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